EVENT TRANSCRIPT
Laurie Frankel/Rufi Thorpe
The King's English Bookstore
Wednesday, June 16, 2021
Rob Eckman: Good evening and thank you for joining The King's English online. Tonight we're celebrating Laurie Frankel in conversation with Laurie Frankel. We are broadcasting on Zoom and I'll let you know how to interact. On the right side of your screen is the chat box. Please type questions for Laurie and Rufi here or you can raise your hand. The program is offered at no charge but One Two Three and the Knockout Queen by Rufi Thorpe can be ordered here. This event is being recorded and will be available on our website.
Laurie Frankel has written 4 novels. She is the recipient of the Washington State Book Award and the Endeavor Award. She lives in Seattle with her family and dog and makes good soup.
Rufi Thorpe wrote 3 novels. She lives in Los Angeles with her husband and sons.
I'll turn it over for conversation; let me know if you need any help.
Rufi Thorpe: Can you give us the premise of the book?
Laurie Frankel: It's about 3 teenage sisters in a small town with a dark past which isn't so past after all. They live downstream from a chemical plant that has been polluting their water before they were born. It's about the fallout and what happens when they need to take matters into their own hands.
Rufi Thorpe: What were the pieces and how did they come to you?
Laurie Frankel: I can't remember the order they came in. It kind of rains in from all directions. In January 2016 I read an article in the New York Times Magazine about a town in West Virginia about a chemical plant that had been polluting the water and the lawyer who had been suing them for 20 years on behalf of the town. It's a remarkable time and is the outlier. The town is downstream from the plant and is knowingly polluting the water. I read variations on the story in the paper every day. It talked about long-term health consequences. What does that mean? What about a generation later?
Rufi Thorpe: It's nice to see how different people are impacted. Three characters are in the story. It's nice to see how they're triplets and equal in some way and affected differently.
Laurie Frankel: They narrate in the first person, present tense, in rounds. They're teenagers. My inclination as a writer is in third person and past tense so this was a little bit of battle. They negotiate the world differently from one another and I had to keep the reader in mind when they talked. They needed to sound different from one another. At first they sounded like me; I used to be a teenage girl but it's been 30 years. Their life experiences are different from mine so they had to sound different from me. It went through lots of editing.
Rufi Thorpe: Who was your favorite to write?
Laurie Frankel: Monday. She was interested in word and what they mean and was a librarian and wants to tell you about it. She wants to talk about it a lot.
Rufi Thorpe: I found the library has been moved into their house. The image that she keeps the books everywhere in the house is charming. It's a special Laurie Frankel charm thing you do.
Laurie Frankel: It's a fantasy to live in a library.
Rufi Thorpe: The town is kind of separate and cut off. Because the book has many ways in which the genre surprised me. There's romantic comedy and young love. How did you think about genre when you wrote it?
Laurie Frankel: That's such a good question and interesting. The second half of the book is plottier and more mystery driven than I thought it would be. I got well into it and thought I don't know how to do this. In seed planting, you figure out how to do all that stuff in a practical way. I had to go back and figure that out by reading other people's books and seeing how they did it. This book is longer than I usually write -- 400 pages. It's doing character domestic relationship stuff that I like to do. The length surprised me.
Rufi Thorpe: Do you plan it out in advance?
Laurie Frankel: No; do you outline?
Rufi Thorpe: I do but write the first act to figure out what I should be outlining.
Laurie Frankel: I don't know what the characters do until I meet them. I have to figure out who they are and what they're doing and then go fix it.
Rufi Thorpe: There are writers who write in coffee shops and those who write lying in bed.
Laurie Frankel: I'm an in-bed writer. I feel bad for the people who can only write in coffee shops because there was none this year. I can recline anywhere. It's hard to carve out quiet space when we're crowded together. I write sometimes in the bathroom.
Rufi Thorpe: My children find me the fastest in there.
Laurie Frankel: In the car is a good idea. My child is older than yours. It's embarrassing when you're in middle school and your mother is writing in the bathroom.
Rufi Thorpe: Now I'll read a long passage from the book and irritate you. It's a scene between Mirabelle and her mother. (Reading from the book). This is a love story in so many ways and human evil. At what point did you understand that it would be a love story and a counterpoint to the human disregard. Did you always know?
Laurie Frankel: Yes, that's always the point of what I'm writing. I'm hard pressed to think of narratives that I would not loosely describe in that way. It's a smart lens on that I think. One thing I have to resist is the impulse to make love enough. In life, there are other pressing needs and it's dismissive and minimizing to say you have love so what else do you need? The systemic shit that comes your way, you shouldn't complain about because you have love.
Rufi Thorpe: The theme of young love begs for a happy ending and you have to figure out how to give them one that feels authentic and real and true. There's some of Erin Brockovich in the book. The legal system isn't necessarily how justice gets done. How did you give your characters a happy ending that felt authentic? I felt like you heard these news stories and maybe you knew from the beginning that we hear about them and someone tells the story of them.
Laurie Frankel: It's the idea of raising your consciousness. We have this legal system and it keeps everyone honest and fair and it almost never works. Who's pushing that? Who benefits from the facts? The law is on one side but benefits from the other side. How do you end the damn book? It took me a long time to find it. It's a sad thing about a book tour is that the book just came out and no one has read it so you can't talk about the ending.
Rufi Thorpe: What to do with the evils of capitalism? You don't realize as a novelist that you have to come up with a solution.
Laurie Frankel: Part of what I wrestled with is suggesting that this is something you are responsible for--the shit that starts upstream and comes down. The book still has to end.
Rufi Thorpe: Reading passages of the book is the best way to make people buy it. It reminds me of the David and Goliath passage. (Reading from the book). It goes on in this gorgeous description; this is what the characters and you are up against. They always say to novelists that there has to be conflict. This book is sneakily at the core of human conflict. What do you do with evil people ruining your life? It's a deep question.
Laurie Frankel: It's a hard question and I was keen not to minimize it. It's like my rant. You as an individual can be responsible; the shit that has come to you has come because you have failed to surmount it. That's really terrible. Who is being served by the David and Goliath metaphor? It's the Goliaths. It's evil and lying about it is even worse. In the scope of a novel, it's told by the characters and they have to learn and grow. You have to balance that. Pure evil isn't that interesting and presents a narrative problem and you have to figure ways around it.
Rufi Thorpe: I love that you have the 3 teenage girl narrators. Teenagers are often presented as caring about the wrong things but they are pitted against the biggest evil in their small world. You take them seriously as an author. I know you used to teach writing. I'm curious about your own education as a writer. After you get your MFA you're still a baby. You stumble across paperbacks and learn from them. What were the novels and books that made you the writer you are?
Laurie Frankel: In the beginning or this one?
Rufi Thorpe: I guess both.
Laurie Frankel: I have so many answers. I knew this had to be in the first person so I read only first-person novels. I read a novel or two a week while I'm writing. Then I get different ideas. I learned early on that I'm too easily influenced. I'm tempted by other people's novels. I reread Poisonwood Bible and learned to narrate by different people in different chapters. I reread Empire Fall which is a different book but it showed how to do small towns and high school. Some of it is those early years of being astonished with what people pull off with their first novel. Ruth Ozeki's My Year of Meats. which seems like it won't be a mystery but is. I also read hardcore mysteries, genre mysteries with killing and stabbing and guns. I had to read in the morning so I didn't have nightmares.
Rufi Thorpe: How do you build suspense and pay off--all those mechanics. There have to be twists; it's so hard.
Laurie Frankel: You were my first Zoom event when this came out. You do a beautiful job of what high school feels like without being cheesy.
Rufi Thorpe: Actual teenagers are kind of boring; I was. Fictional teenagers aren't actual teenagers. It's more yummy.
Laurie Frankel: That's exactly it.
Rufi Thorpe: I love that their mother Nora is a baker. This is a lovable way of showing her stress. Then you reveal that the reason she bakes is there's no water in baking so it's safe for them. It is gutting. I think you are a baker.
Laurie Frankel: I do. Are you a baker?
Rufi Thorpe: I dabble and fail.
Laurie Frankel: Writers who outline are bakers and writers who don't are cooks. You have to follow a recipe. What is the difference between baking powder and baking soda? I have no idea, but I don't need to because there's a recipe, so you follow the recipe. Soup isn't like that; screw with it till it tastes good. Novels are like that. People who outline are bakers.
Rufi Thorpe: I have children who demand baked goods; I've never made a good cake.
Laurie Frankel: Soup and a novel have a lot in common.
Rufi Thorpe: Is it easy for you to go back and change a novel?
Laurie Frankel: I cut 100,000 words from this book. It's not a badge of honor. If I could outline it would same me a lot of time and work. Yes, because I have to; I write drafts that don't work so I keep throwing stuff into the pot.
Rufi Thorpe: If you weren't a good writer, you wouldn't cut out those words. I am this kind of writer also and cut a lot. What are you working on next?
Laurie Frankel: I am 150,000 words into the next novel. It needs to get much shorter and more focused quickly. I was at Ragdale in March 2020 at a writer's retreat for a month. I wrote 4000 words a day. I had no children and didn't have to cook so had the time. About 7 days in I got an email that they were closing school. I had to get on a plane and go home before the world changed. It was written in 15-minute increments.
Rufi Thorpe: I'm writing that novel at the moment. Can you tell us about it?
Laurie Frankel: It's about adoption.
Rufi Thorpe: That seems good for your love things. Mine is about a college student who gets pregnant and supports herself.
Laurie Frankel: I can't wait.
Rufi Thorpe; You're the author I would most want a novel about adoption from. What has the quarantine been like for putting out a book. Will tours ever exist again?
Laurie Frankel: It's really a bummer not to see people in person and doing it online. It's hard to convince people after 18 months to stay home and join us online. I'm grateful we are able to make it accessible. We are 1000 miles away and people can tune in when it's convenient for them. I'm not wearing shoes.
Rufi Thorpe: I'm not either.
Laurie Frankel: You need three pairs of shoes--for the event and working out, etc. I think we'll do both going forward; it's nice to have options.
Rufi Thorpe: It's great for people for whom leaving the house is a bummer or if you have little kids.
Laurie Frankel: It's magical. You get to go to everybody's launch.
Rufi Thorpe: You don't have to be in the city. Robert, are there questions from the chat?
Rob Eckman: I've read that this novel wouldn't exist without the number 3. Why is that significant to the story?
Laurie Frankel: It's not my title; it goes in different directions. It's my editor's title. It refers partly to the names of these girls. Their mother needs a device to keep them straight as triplets. They have escalated syllables, Mab, Monday, and Mirabelle. They tell in this waltz, each their own story, but they're combined. It's about the structure of the thing. Don't panic; I have a plan. I like to know that as a reader.
Rufi Thorpe: At the end of chapter 3, the next chapter was chapter 1; I love it.
Laurie Frankel: It takes a minute to figure out the game. It's not chaos; it's fine.
Rob Eckman: You said this about the gap between the rich and poor in our country. As you wrote this precovid, have things changed given the pandemic?
Laurie Frankel: It's been quite a year in lots of ways. We don't need this book to talk about that. One good thing out of this year is we are talking more about those gaps and where they come from and why. What can be done about it is harder, especially when it comes from global contagion. There's not a lot I can do about that. It's frustrating and frightening and heartbreaking. We are talking about systemic problems. We're talking about bigger and wider things. The remarkable thing out of this year is the power of community, bigger than bringing a casserole. You may make sacrifices for people you don't know. That's part of what we've learned and I hope we won't forget it.
Rob Eckman: Your writing is so beautiful and touching. Can you share a piece of advice you've been given?
Laurie Frankel: I teach writing and I tell students they have to figure out their own answer to that question. Advice may not apply to you. The one piece of advice is you should be reading all the time. I write about everything I read, a little English essay about what worked and didn't.
Rufi Thorpe: I do that too. I have a special notebook. It's about things I want to steal, not so much a notebook.
Laurie Frankel: Yes, absolutely. It's not stealing; it's problem solving. Having your writing brain in a book is where it should be. I write with a book in my lap; I read when I'm writing. It makes the world a better place.
Rufi Thorpe: Part of becoming a writer is being good at imagining stuff. You can practice by reading and imagining other people's stuff. You're projecting into this nonreal space in your head.
Rob Eckman: Can you tell us about what you're looking forward to reading this summer?
Laurie Frankel: I have a pile of things. People send you stuff that hasn't come out yet. A lot is coming out this fall. So many books have been held.
Rufi Thorpe: Have you read Emily Adrian at all? She wrote The Second Season. It's a motherhood and basketball book and trying to be a good mother. She's a brutal sensitive writer.
Laurie Frankel: I can't wait. I just read a book about basketball and motherhood. I recommend this book that's coming out in August, Once There Were Wolves.
Rob Eckman: Migrations is fantastic. It helps keep cool in the dog days of summer. This has been a delightful conversation.
Rufi Thorpe: Laurie is the host now.
Laurie Frankel: I don't know what happened. Thank you all so much for coming. It was excellent to see you. Rufi, you are so smart and this is really fun.
Rufi Thorpe: Thank you for giving me a chance to do it; it was a joy and I'm a big fan.
Laurie Frankel: Thank you and bye.
Laurie Frankel/Rufi Thorpe
The King's English Bookstore
Wednesday, June 16, 2021
Rob Eckman: Good evening and thank you for joining The King's English online. Tonight we're celebrating Laurie Frankel in conversation with Laurie Frankel. We are broadcasting on Zoom and I'll let you know how to interact. On the right side of your screen is the chat box. Please type questions for Laurie and Rufi here or you can raise your hand. The program is offered at no charge but One Two Three and the Knockout Queen by Rufi Thorpe can be ordered here. This event is being recorded and will be available on our website.
Laurie Frankel has written 4 novels. She is the recipient of the Washington State Book Award and the Endeavor Award. She lives in Seattle with her family and dog and makes good soup.
Rufi Thorpe wrote 3 novels. She lives in Los Angeles with her husband and sons.
I'll turn it over for conversation; let me know if you need any help.
Rufi Thorpe: Can you give us the premise of the book?
Laurie Frankel: It's about 3 teenage sisters in a small town with a dark past which isn't so past after all. They live downstream from a chemical plant that has been polluting their water before they were born. It's about the fallout and what happens when they need to take matters into their own hands.
Rufi Thorpe: What were the pieces and how did they come to you?
Laurie Frankel: I can't remember the order they came in. It kind of rains in from all directions. In January 2016 I read an article in the New York Times Magazine about a town in West Virginia about a chemical plant that had been polluting the water and the lawyer who had been suing them for 20 years on behalf of the town. It's a remarkable time and is the outlier. The town is downstream from the plant and is knowingly polluting the water. I read variations on the story in the paper every day. It talked about long-term health consequences. What does that mean? What about a generation later?
Rufi Thorpe: It's nice to see how different people are impacted. Three characters are in the story. It's nice to see how they're triplets and equal in some way and affected differently.
Laurie Frankel: They narrate in the first person, present tense, in rounds. They're teenagers. My inclination as a writer is in third person and past tense so this was a little bit of battle. They negotiate the world differently from one another and I had to keep the reader in mind when they talked. They needed to sound different from one another. At first they sounded like me; I used to be a teenage girl but it's been 30 years. Their life experiences are different from mine so they had to sound different from me. It went through lots of editing.
Rufi Thorpe: Who was your favorite to write?
Laurie Frankel: Monday. She was interested in word and what they mean and was a librarian and wants to tell you about it. She wants to talk about it a lot.
Rufi Thorpe: I found the library has been moved into their house. The image that she keeps the books everywhere in the house is charming. It's a special Laurie Frankel charm thing you do.
Laurie Frankel: It's a fantasy to live in a library.
Rufi Thorpe: The town is kind of separate and cut off. Because the book has many ways in which the genre surprised me. There's romantic comedy and young love. How did you think about genre when you wrote it?
Laurie Frankel: That's such a good question and interesting. The second half of the book is plottier and more mystery driven than I thought it would be. I got well into it and thought I don't know how to do this. In seed planting, you figure out how to do all that stuff in a practical way. I had to go back and figure that out by reading other people's books and seeing how they did it. This book is longer than I usually write -- 400 pages. It's doing character domestic relationship stuff that I like to do. The length surprised me.
Rufi Thorpe: Do you plan it out in advance?
Laurie Frankel: No; do you outline?
Rufi Thorpe: I do but write the first act to figure out what I should be outlining.
Laurie Frankel: I don't know what the characters do until I meet them. I have to figure out who they are and what they're doing and then go fix it.
Rufi Thorpe: There are writers who write in coffee shops and those who write lying in bed.
Laurie Frankel: I'm an in-bed writer. I feel bad for the people who can only write in coffee shops because there was none this year. I can recline anywhere. It's hard to carve out quiet space when we're crowded together. I write sometimes in the bathroom.
Rufi Thorpe: My children find me the fastest in there.
Laurie Frankel: In the car is a good idea. My child is older than yours. It's embarrassing when you're in middle school and your mother is writing in the bathroom.
Rufi Thorpe: Now I'll read a long passage from the book and irritate you. It's a scene between Mirabelle and her mother. (Reading from the book). This is a love story in so many ways and human evil. At what point did you understand that it would be a love story and a counterpoint to the human disregard. Did you always know?
Laurie Frankel: Yes, that's always the point of what I'm writing. I'm hard pressed to think of narratives that I would not loosely describe in that way. It's a smart lens on that I think. One thing I have to resist is the impulse to make love enough. In life, there are other pressing needs and it's dismissive and minimizing to say you have love so what else do you need? The systemic shit that comes your way, you shouldn't complain about because you have love.
Rufi Thorpe: The theme of young love begs for a happy ending and you have to figure out how to give them one that feels authentic and real and true. There's some of Erin Brockovich in the book. The legal system isn't necessarily how justice gets done. How did you give your characters a happy ending that felt authentic? I felt like you heard these news stories and maybe you knew from the beginning that we hear about them and someone tells the story of them.
Laurie Frankel: It's the idea of raising your consciousness. We have this legal system and it keeps everyone honest and fair and it almost never works. Who's pushing that? Who benefits from the facts? The law is on one side but benefits from the other side. How do you end the damn book? It took me a long time to find it. It's a sad thing about a book tour is that the book just came out and no one has read it so you can't talk about the ending.
Rufi Thorpe: What to do with the evils of capitalism? You don't realize as a novelist that you have to come up with a solution.
Laurie Frankel: Part of what I wrestled with is suggesting that this is something you are responsible for--the shit that starts upstream and comes down. The book still has to end.
Rufi Thorpe: Reading passages of the book is the best way to make people buy it. It reminds me of the David and Goliath passage. (Reading from the book). It goes on in this gorgeous description; this is what the characters and you are up against. They always say to novelists that there has to be conflict. This book is sneakily at the core of human conflict. What do you do with evil people ruining your life? It's a deep question.
Laurie Frankel: It's a hard question and I was keen not to minimize it. It's like my rant. You as an individual can be responsible; the shit that has come to you has come because you have failed to surmount it. That's really terrible. Who is being served by the David and Goliath metaphor? It's the Goliaths. It's evil and lying about it is even worse. In the scope of a novel, it's told by the characters and they have to learn and grow. You have to balance that. Pure evil isn't that interesting and presents a narrative problem and you have to figure ways around it.
Rufi Thorpe: I love that you have the 3 teenage girl narrators. Teenagers are often presented as caring about the wrong things but they are pitted against the biggest evil in their small world. You take them seriously as an author. I know you used to teach writing. I'm curious about your own education as a writer. After you get your MFA you're still a baby. You stumble across paperbacks and learn from them. What were the novels and books that made you the writer you are?
Laurie Frankel: In the beginning or this one?
Rufi Thorpe: I guess both.
Laurie Frankel: I have so many answers. I knew this had to be in the first person so I read only first-person novels. I read a novel or two a week while I'm writing. Then I get different ideas. I learned early on that I'm too easily influenced. I'm tempted by other people's novels. I reread Poisonwood Bible and learned to narrate by different people in different chapters. I reread Empire Fall which is a different book but it showed how to do small towns and high school. Some of it is those early years of being astonished with what people pull off with their first novel. Ruth Ozeki's My Year of Meats. which seems like it won't be a mystery but is. I also read hardcore mysteries, genre mysteries with killing and stabbing and guns. I had to read in the morning so I didn't have nightmares.
Rufi Thorpe: How do you build suspense and pay off--all those mechanics. There have to be twists; it's so hard.
Laurie Frankel: You were my first Zoom event when this came out. You do a beautiful job of what high school feels like without being cheesy.
Rufi Thorpe: Actual teenagers are kind of boring; I was. Fictional teenagers aren't actual teenagers. It's more yummy.
Laurie Frankel: That's exactly it.
Rufi Thorpe: I love that their mother Nora is a baker. This is a lovable way of showing her stress. Then you reveal that the reason she bakes is there's no water in baking so it's safe for them. It is gutting. I think you are a baker.
Laurie Frankel: I do. Are you a baker?
Rufi Thorpe: I dabble and fail.
Laurie Frankel: Writers who outline are bakers and writers who don't are cooks. You have to follow a recipe. What is the difference between baking powder and baking soda? I have no idea, but I don't need to because there's a recipe, so you follow the recipe. Soup isn't like that; screw with it till it tastes good. Novels are like that. People who outline are bakers.
Rufi Thorpe: I have children who demand baked goods; I've never made a good cake.
Laurie Frankel: Soup and a novel have a lot in common.
Rufi Thorpe: Is it easy for you to go back and change a novel?
Laurie Frankel: I cut 100,000 words from this book. It's not a badge of honor. If I could outline it would same me a lot of time and work. Yes, because I have to; I write drafts that don't work so I keep throwing stuff into the pot.
Rufi Thorpe: If you weren't a good writer, you wouldn't cut out those words. I am this kind of writer also and cut a lot. What are you working on next?
Laurie Frankel: I am 150,000 words into the next novel. It needs to get much shorter and more focused quickly. I was at Ragdale in March 2020 at a writer's retreat for a month. I wrote 4000 words a day. I had no children and didn't have to cook so had the time. About 7 days in I got an email that they were closing school. I had to get on a plane and go home before the world changed. It was written in 15-minute increments.
Rufi Thorpe: I'm writing that novel at the moment. Can you tell us about it?
Laurie Frankel: It's about adoption.
Rufi Thorpe: That seems good for your love things. Mine is about a college student who gets pregnant and supports herself.
Laurie Frankel: I can't wait.
Rufi Thorpe; You're the author I would most want a novel about adoption from. What has the quarantine been like for putting out a book. Will tours ever exist again?
Laurie Frankel: It's really a bummer not to see people in person and doing it online. It's hard to convince people after 18 months to stay home and join us online. I'm grateful we are able to make it accessible. We are 1000 miles away and people can tune in when it's convenient for them. I'm not wearing shoes.
Rufi Thorpe: I'm not either.
Laurie Frankel: You need three pairs of shoes--for the event and working out, etc. I think we'll do both going forward; it's nice to have options.
Rufi Thorpe: It's great for people for whom leaving the house is a bummer or if you have little kids.
Laurie Frankel: It's magical. You get to go to everybody's launch.
Rufi Thorpe: You don't have to be in the city. Robert, are there questions from the chat?
Rob Eckman: I've read that this novel wouldn't exist without the number 3. Why is that significant to the story?
Laurie Frankel: It's not my title; it goes in different directions. It's my editor's title. It refers partly to the names of these girls. Their mother needs a device to keep them straight as triplets. They have escalated syllables, Mab, Monday, and Mirabelle. They tell in this waltz, each their own story, but they're combined. It's about the structure of the thing. Don't panic; I have a plan. I like to know that as a reader.
Rufi Thorpe: At the end of chapter 3, the next chapter was chapter 1; I love it.
Laurie Frankel: It takes a minute to figure out the game. It's not chaos; it's fine.
Rob Eckman: You said this about the gap between the rich and poor in our country. As you wrote this precovid, have things changed given the pandemic?
Laurie Frankel: It's been quite a year in lots of ways. We don't need this book to talk about that. One good thing out of this year is we are talking more about those gaps and where they come from and why. What can be done about it is harder, especially when it comes from global contagion. There's not a lot I can do about that. It's frustrating and frightening and heartbreaking. We are talking about systemic problems. We're talking about bigger and wider things. The remarkable thing out of this year is the power of community, bigger than bringing a casserole. You may make sacrifices for people you don't know. That's part of what we've learned and I hope we won't forget it.
Rob Eckman: Your writing is so beautiful and touching. Can you share a piece of advice you've been given?
Laurie Frankel: I teach writing and I tell students they have to figure out their own answer to that question. Advice may not apply to you. The one piece of advice is you should be reading all the time. I write about everything I read, a little English essay about what worked and didn't.
Rufi Thorpe: I do that too. I have a special notebook. It's about things I want to steal, not so much a notebook.
Laurie Frankel: Yes, absolutely. It's not stealing; it's problem solving. Having your writing brain in a book is where it should be. I write with a book in my lap; I read when I'm writing. It makes the world a better place.
Rufi Thorpe: Part of becoming a writer is being good at imagining stuff. You can practice by reading and imagining other people's stuff. You're projecting into this nonreal space in your head.
Rob Eckman: Can you tell us about what you're looking forward to reading this summer?
Laurie Frankel: I have a pile of things. People send you stuff that hasn't come out yet. A lot is coming out this fall. So many books have been held.
Rufi Thorpe: Have you read Emily Adrian at all? She wrote The Second Season. It's a motherhood and basketball book and trying to be a good mother. She's a brutal sensitive writer.
Laurie Frankel: I can't wait. I just read a book about basketball and motherhood. I recommend this book that's coming out in August, Once There Were Wolves.
Rob Eckman: Migrations is fantastic. It helps keep cool in the dog days of summer. This has been a delightful conversation.
Rufi Thorpe: Laurie is the host now.
Laurie Frankel: I don't know what happened. Thank you all so much for coming. It was excellent to see you. Rufi, you are so smart and this is really fun.
Rufi Thorpe: Thank you for giving me a chance to do it; it was a joy and I'm a big fan.
Laurie Frankel: Thank you and bye.